Hi! I Really Like Your Post About How Femininity Vs. Badassery And Female Characters So Often Wanting

Hi! I really like your post about how femininity vs. badassery and female characters so often wanting to be mothers. I saw you mentioned Marinette in your tags, and I definitely agree that the way her crush on Adrien is portrayed as this elaborate plan for the future is,, weird and unrealistic, especially for a character with so many other interests. (Not to mention the narrative punishes her for it, but that's a dif issue) I think That Guy probably assumes that's the only way a girl can crush

(i have more sorry) This bit is more based on me, but another reason I think having Marinette want kids enough to already have names doesn't fit is that she's pressured into babysitting against her wishes pretty often. Like, if that happened to me, I would get tired of kids pretty fast and probably wouldn't be as eager to have my own (if I wanted them). I had more but ofc now it's gone. Thanks!

no thank YOU for giving me the opportunity to tackle this directly because. honestly i don’t like any of the little kid characters and there could be some commentary on how young teenage girls are forced into motherly roles over their younger siblings/family friends but i think that’s just my own personal beef about how Marinette “can never say no” and how it’s always framed as her own fault when being Ladybug conflicts with babysitting like. Let her say no! Let her refuse! She doesn’t have the TIME.

marinette is just. they literally said this in the licensing trailer!!! that she was to be a relatable female superhero!!! but they ONLY made her relatable to what they believe young girls are.

“Marinette is a character that girls will really identify with. She likes fashion, she makes her own accessories.”

“She’s an innocent, happy little girl, who is very kind and clumsy.”

“[...] what makes her stand out is her generosity, that’s what makes her an exemplary heroine.”

The last line is said by Astruc and ESPECIALLY pisses me off because girls are already told to be generous and kind to the point whereas with guys it’s “boys will be boys” when a guy’s a dick as if being respectful and giving is inherent to being a girl.

Marinette is OVERWHELMINGLY generous to other people, but instead of a lesson where it’s about “you can be kind and have boundaries” or “you can be helpful without neglecting yourself” or “you are not defined by what you can do for others”, the show just doubles down on all of it! Marinette’s not allowed to NOT help people around her or else they get akumatised. Marinette’s not allowed to snap at Lila or Chloe or else they will get akumatised or take it out on someone else and get them akumatised. Marinette’s not allowed to reject Chat Noir and refuse to go on his dates, otherwise he throws a fit about it and stops helping her during akumatisations.

And THEN. when she isn’t being the thirteen year old version of the perfect fucking 1950s housewife who will never deny you and do everything you ask, the one (1) somewhat gender subversive trait she has is that she’s a great gamer, and it doesn’t even come up BECAUSE she likes gaming! She does it specifically because Adrien is involved.

and it’s not HARD to make these traits into genuine actually progressive lessons. She-Ra already did that and they didn’t even need to boast about how woke they were when they gave Adora the lesson of being allowed to do things for herself and that she isn’t solely what she can do for other people.

Maybe Marinette takes on too much responsibility because she doesn’t want to cause more akumatisations by asserting her own boundaries, maybe she lets Chloe do whatever she wants and gives up on exposing Lila because in the short-term it keeps Ladybug from having to fight more akumas. Maybe all of this turns into an analogy for how kids (especially girls) are told not to fight back against bullies because “you have to be better than them” and how adults don’t always keep you safe and how complacency can be a coping mechanism AND cause a lot more harm.

Maybe Chat Noir constantly pursuing Ladybug despite her rejections becomes a lesson on how much harder it is for girls to refuse guys because some of them won’t take ‘no’ for an answer, and if you’re mad at me for saying that you can blame that on boys being raised to “never give up on true love” and that you just need to wear girls down until they say yes because they’re just “playing hard to get”.

I am just so increasingly livid about how many GOOD lessons we could have gotten if this show weren’t produced and written by straight white men, if it were written by women who understand the nuances of being constantly told as a child to be “kind” and not rock the boat, if it were written by WOC who know how your race affects how “kindly” other people will perceive you, if it were written by queer women who understood how stifling it is to grow up in a heteronormative society and trying to be pushed back into the role of “proper femininity”, or trying to be a girl in a world that refuses to see you as one.

diverse characters do not start and end with what’s on the screen, but who puts those characters on-screen. what’s the point in having a female superhero if there is only one female writer in s2 and s3, and that singular writer is up against the many straight white producers and executives and a head director/writer who refuses to take any criticism and can fire you if he disagrees with you?

Y'all w/ Netflix at home better watch Kipo oficially because this show DESERVES more seasons

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cloechou

7 years ago

i’m so ;-; sad right now…

Like i knew starco was gonna be endgame, it’s pretty obvious, and anyone that didn’t see it coming is obviously blind, but this is too much…

I at least hoped that tom and star would break up in a more healthy way, like jarco, but more meaningful, since their relationship really symbolizes everything star fights for.

But this? If Star and Marco don’t fix this as proper human, or mewman, beings, i’m just gonna take a step back on having any respect for Starco. Like if you thought the fans were toxic oh boy you were wrong, Star cheating on my boy Tom, and Marco kissing Star knowing that she has a boyfriend? Um? Cheating anybody? Like i’m sorry but Star didn’t seem in the least mad or upset at the situation, she just pointed out the fact that she has a boyfriend, but she didn’t seem not a bit upset.

ok i’m rambling and a little bit salty but i just had to :’(

This is going either ways: Star tells Tom, they break up (and you can bet your ass star will find the way to make it seem like this is tom’s fault, saying he’s not good enough or whatever the fuck), or she tells him, apologizes, and their bond becomes stronger.

I’m just hoping it’s the latter, or have their relationship broken in a satisfying way, but seeing how the writers have handled relationships, i highly doubt it.

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cloechou

5 years ago

Is ML misogynistic and hold double standards for the female characters? Iyo.

100%. It expects Marinette to be perfect, and punishes her when she isn’t. They punish her anyways even when she’s not wrong. This is funny considering the one who supposedly holds this burden is Adrien. 85% of what we see from Marinette is her pining over a boy or being toxically jealous. Marinette’s jealousy and her inability to confess her feelings honestly are the only repeated problems we see her try to improve on. Why??? Confessing I understand because they want to milk the whole love square for as long as they can, but the jealousy??? It receives way too much screen time, especially in comparison to her many other wonderful qualities. Is jealousy really the best repeated lesson they could come up with for Marinette? For all the girls watching the show? I don’t know any girls who are like this irl. In other words, as a girl, can’t relate.

As for the other girls in the series, I want to mainly point out the blantant girl on girl cat fights going on between Marinette, Lila, Chloe, and Kagami. Just w h y. Luka is a completely nice boy who doesn’t resent Adrien or Marinette for how they feel. Nino is a great friend who steps up for the people around him. Nathaniel is a quiet shy boy who is passionate about art. None of them are pitted with one another, and none of them have any type of heated rivalry going on. Chloe, Lila, Kagami, and even Marinette (in season 1) are all aggressive and malicious to one another, all for some boy (no offense Adrien, but you aren’t so good that all these girls should fight for you). I know exactly (0) girls who are anything like this in real life. I’m sick of all this girl on girl hate.

Jesus Christ the treatment of Kagami is just…b a d. In Riposte she seemed really cool. She was calm, collected, and badass, but we saw a more vulnerable side to her when she’s looking down at her family ring, fearing her mother’s disappointment. Great, interesting character so far. Then Frozer happened. Became super snippy, competitive, and aggressive??? I don’t know about you guys, but I saw her as serious, refined, and controlled. This was just a complete 180. She snips at Marinette to assert her dominance out of nowhere??? Now what we see of her from that point on always has something to do with staking her claim on Adrien. Great. A female who is so weirdly possesive of a boy she’s only been on (1) date with.

How about Luka? While Luka is in need of more chracter development, his attitude is just completely opposite to the venom between all the girls. He is focused on having fun with Marinette, and wooing her (and succeeds briefly ;)). When he finds out about her feelings for Adrien, does he stake his claim on Marinette? No. Make passive aggressive remarks to him? No. He’s a nice person who respects both of their feelings. He respects that Marinette likes Adrien, and even encourages her to go after him. He puts her feelings above his own.

(Adrien salt incoming) Adrien should repent for his mistakes and apologize properly. Adrien should feel bad for making Ladybug feel guilty for rejecting him. Adrien should have time in the show for self improvement. Adrien should not be some kind of pure deity who should always be listened to in every situation. He shouldn’t always be in the right, and Marinette shouldn’t always have to listen to everything he says like it’s gospel. Marinette’s emotions should be validated, just as much as his are.

A lot of what I said has already been discussed in the fandom (and probably more coherently), but I hope you see what I mean. Adrien ain’t the bees-knees. Girls shouldn’t be depicted in such a toxic way, especially over a guy. Both girls and boys should respect each other’s boundaries.

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cloechou

4 years ago