Sources And Explanations On HC-DID, TBMC And RAMCOA Methods + What Makes An HC-DID System

Here is your reminder that masks and vaccines are not ritual abuse or trauma based mind control and comparing covid restrictions and pandemic safety measures to literal torture and various forms of abuse is peak stupidity

does RAMCOA always involve sexual abuse by default? We relate to some experiences of RAMCOA survivors but we don't feel sexual abuse was exactly the main focus of the abuse, in fact the sexual abuse we experienced was actually completely unrelated as far as we're away. feel free not to answer if you're not comfortable, we just can't seem to find a clear answer to this question anywhere.

100% No. CSA and SA are often a part of RAMCOA- a lot of people do experience it if they experience RAMCOA- however not a single one of the 3 types of abuse that it covers requires CSA/SA. We had this confusion ourselves for a while at first because we had no memory of CSA whatsoever- sadly we learned we were wrong on that front but even before we had learned we still were a RAMCOA survivor even without it. Hope this helps.

Endos / endogenics and why they aren't valid :

We've made posts on this before but we decided it might be good to make one big post to link to for when / if anyone asks again. We tried to cover everything we could in this post but we'll likely be making other posts similar to this later on.

So what are endos? Endos or endogenics are people who claim to have DID/OSDD without trauma or claim to have alters / be a system without having DID/OSDD.

Why is this bad? This is misinformation because as far as science knows DID/OSDD is a trauma based disorder (specifically caused by trauma in early childhood, which is speculated to be 1-9 / 1-12 years old) and your brain would not split / create alters without reason. You cannot have alters without having a disorder, this is common sense as it's not normal to have alters. To add onto this endos also take over our communities and steal our terms. (We'll make a post with further information on that in the future).

There is also a carrd that explains why endos are bad and debunks a few myths if anyone is interested in it! If not continue reading

Why can't you have DID/OSDD or alters without trauma? As far as science knows DID/OSDD is a trauma disorder and in order to have alters in the first place you require dissociation, which is also a trauma response. Here are tons of medically reviewed sources that say this:

“ They suggest that DID is caused by experiencing severe trauma over a long time in childhood. By experiencing trauma in childhood, you take on different identities and behaviours to protect yourself. As you grow up these behaviours become more fully formed until it looks like you have different identities ” — rethink.org

“ Dissociative identity disorder (DID), previously known as multiple personality disorder, is a complex psychological condition caused by many things. These include severe trauma during early childhood (usually extreme, repetitive physical, sexual, or emotional abuse). It's also known as split personality disorder. ” — webMD

“ DID is usually associated with adverse experiences in someone’s past and traumatic memories. ” & “ Dissociation — a major part of DID — is a defense mechanism the body uses to reduce your awareness during overwhelming trauma ” — pysch central

“ DID is associated with long-term exposure to trauma, often chronic traumatic experiences during early childhood. ” & “ Dissociation—or disconnection from one’s sense of self or environment—can be a response to trauma. It can happen during a single-incident, traumatic event (e.g., an assault, a natural disaster, or a motor vehicle accident), or during ongoing trauma (e.g., wartime; chronic childhood abuse). ” — mcleanhospital.org

“ Dissociative disorders often develop as a way to deal with a catastrophic event or with long-term stress, abuse or trauma. This is particularly true if such events take place early in childhood. At this time of life, there are limitations to your ability to fully understand what’s happening. In addition, your coping mechanisms aren’t fully developed and getting support and resources depends on the presence of caring and knowledgeable adults. ” — my.clevelandclinic.org

“ There are many possible causes of dissociative disorders, including previous traumatic experience. ” & “ Switching off from reality is a normal defence mechanism that helps the person cope during a traumatic time. ” — nhs.uk

“ Dissociative identity disorder is the result of a natural way of coping with childhood trauma. Our page on the causes of dissociative disorders has more information. ” & “ Dissociation is a natural response to trauma while it's happening. But some of us may still experience dissociation long after the traumatic event has finished. Past experiences of dissociation during traumatic events may mean that you haven't processed these experiences fully. ” — mind.org (two links since they're two different pages)

“ Dissociative disorders usually start as a way to cope with shocking, distressing or painful events. The disorders most often form in children who go through long-term physical, sexual or emotional abuse. Less often, the disorders form in children who've lived in a home where they went through frightening times or they never knew what to expect. The stress of war or natural disasters also can bring on dissociative disorders. When you go through an event that's too much to handle emotionally, you may feel like you're stepping outside of yourself and seeing the event as if it's happening to another person. Mentally escaping in this way may help you get through a shocking, distressing or painful time. ” — mayoclinic.org

Most of these sources are pretty recent too, with the most recent one being made in September 2023 (webMD)

What about religious beliefs / tuplamacy? First people are not required to believe or participate in your religious beliefs (and religious beliefs are not exempt from criticism) and second tuplamacy is a closed Buddhist practice that has nothing to do with being a system and should not be compared to being a system nor should it be included / involved in system communities. Note that the DSM-V also says that in order to have DID; "The disturbance is not a normal part of a broadly accepted cultural or religious practice." <- this does not mean it's possible to have alters due to a religious thing, if anything it says they cannot be counted as alters / as a system.

To add on, no you cannot pray to be a system or transition into being a system. If you were to pray and one day magically become a system you are either in denial or you've convinced yourself you're something you're not. Believing you can be a system without trauma or that you can become a system by praying is like believing you can get autism from vaccines or drinking too much dairy milk, that's just not how it works.

What about mixed origin systems? Mixed origin systems are not a thing. DID/OSDD forms purely from trauma, you can't form from a mix of trauma and not trauma, that's not how it works. If you identify as mixed origin you are likely in denial and really need to come to terms with the fact that you are either traumatized or you're not a system at all.

What about other kinds of origins? Other origins like "willowgenic" and all that bullshit? Yeah no, same thing as endos, not possible. Look above for all the proof you need, DID/OSDD is only caused by trauma. Traumagenic is the only valid origin.

But I gave myself DID! / But I created my own alters! No you didn't. That isn't possible, you cannot turn yourself into a DID/OSDD system and creating alters is a coping mechanism, not something you do for fun, sources on this;

“ DID Isn't Something You Can Give Yourself on Purpose. Having DID was not a conscious decision those of us with the disorder made when we were children. Dissociative identity disorder is not a selective disorder, meaning you cannot decide that you want to develop this brilliant coping mechanism and then you have it. ” — healthyplace

“ In any case, additional alters are usually the result of extreme stress. The mind does not like to be fractured even when an individual already has DID or OSDD-1. Many individuals cannot split unless a split is strictly necessary for their protection, functioning, or ability to remain hidden as a system. That said, there are exceptions. Some individuals may become so used to using splitting as a coping mechanism that they may split easily in response to seemingly minor stressors. ” — didresearch.org

Isn't being a system like the same as being trans or being LGBTQ? No, many endos compared the two but they are completely different. Being LGBTQ is an identity, it's something you are born as. Being a system is a debilitating disorder caused by severe trauma, it is counted as a disability which is;

“ 'A person has a disability if: They have a physical or mental impairment, and the impairment has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on the person's ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities.' ” — gmc.org

The reason DID would be counted as a disability is that;

“ Having a dissociative disorder can affect your ability to keep a full-time job, especially one with work stresses, which can worsen your symptoms. ” — disabilitysecrets

And the DSM-V criteria literally says;

“ The symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning ” — traumadissociation

But the DSM-V says that trauma isn't required! No, the DSM-V actually says CSA isn't required, there are other forms of trauma that don't involve CSA or child abuse. To act as if it saying that the trauma isn't always CSA or child abuse means that it doesn't require trauma at all is extremely invalidating to those who are traumatized in ways that don't involve child abuse or CSA.

But this source claims endos exist / DID doesn't require trauma! Most of those sources are extremely old and / or made by endos (or pro endos) themselves. (We'll make a more in-depth post on this topic some other time, but for now this is all we have to say on it)

But we don't know everything about the human brain! You're right, we don't. The brain is mysterious, but we do know enough to know that it doesn't do these kinds of things for no reason. We know the brain reacts to trauma and we know what the difference between a normal brain and a disordered brain is. Just because we don't know everything doesn't give people an excuse to jump to conclusions and spread misinformation. It is better to stick to what science currently knows which is the theory of structural dissociation, which is the current theory about how DID/OSDD forms, and so far no one has been able to disprove it. And before someone says it, no it is not only a theory, it is a scientific theory which is;

“ A theory is a well-substantiated explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can incorporate laws, hypotheses and facts. The theory of gravitation, for instance, explains why apples fall from trees and astronauts float in space. Similarly, the theory of evolution explains why so many plants and animals—some very similar and some very different—exist on Earth now and in the past, as revealed by the fossil record. ” — amnh.org

And to add on;

“ Scientists develop theories to explain the natural world and to advance scientific knowledge. A theory is the highest level of explanation in science. Some features of scientific theories are that they: have been thoroughly tested over an extended period, provide accurate explanations and, predictions for a wide range of phenomena, are widely accepted by the scientific community, demonstrate strong experimental and observational support ” — study.com

What counts as TBMC? Ex-Pentecostal wanting to know because I never really see clear and concise definitions on these things and trying to research RAMCOA gives me a lot of dodgy right wing rhetoric which I don't want to keep having to comb through for my own sanity.

TBMC is known by as two things. One: trauma based mind control. Two: torture based mind control.

Most survivors we've also ran into prefer the former because it tends to include things that are less extreme and not everyone feels their trauma went far enough to be considered torture. It's also unfortunately true that a lotta alt-righters tend to get into mind control in a more co-opting nature, which is ironic given the group that did that to us was alt-right. Honestly we find the TB to be unnecessary given mind control is always traumatic and is inherently horrific.

What counts as TBMC?

TBMC is something done primarily through abusive means to induce a dissociative state, in which one becomes more suggestible. This can be done in order to intentionally create parts/alters (when done starting on someone as a child in rare cases) or just to make someone behave the way you want them to. This is why sometimes people who are abducted by other countries as agents betray their old group and join in with their abusers. (For an extreme example). Other ways the dissociative state is achieved is through putting people into forms of trances. This can be done with meditation or mantras, forced hypnotization, and at times substances.

We've got a good mixture of both mind control and conditioning. The conditioning is done more via Pavlov's Dogs type experiences and "training" and is less tied to TBMC and typically easier to train out of. Mind control- especially in those raised with it- is driven into a part of their personality. It becomes an essential piece of the whole identity and it is not something that can be taken away without proper aid and therapy. You cannot deprogram yourself from mind control the way you can "uncondition" yourself, so to speak.

Anything that was driven into you while in a dissociative state (thus highly suggestible) or being actively traumatized that is ideological, personal, an act, behaviors, etc. is typically a form of mind control. A very common example of this is being made to be fully and completely dependent upon your leader/an authority figure. This may result in what is reminiscent of worship of the individual and in some cases leaves the victims incapable of making decisions. To this day we have to ask friends in desperation what food we should eat because the idea of deciding for ourselves is far too difficult. We roll dice connected to numbers to mark our decisions in hopes of having a way to make a choice. (And again, this is but one example.)

Some of the information we have garnered on the subject comes from a variety of sources more heavily focused upon cults as that was what we grew up in and with. We have dug deep into the information on what makes a cult a cult and what signs of specific types of cultic programming we exhibit. Even then programming can be hard to categorize and know what is meant by because it's so personal and specific in its application. I am uncertain if we are of much help- but I will say we personally see no harm in if you find spaces appropriate for it, asking if specific things you expect may be programming or signs of TBMC are able to be labeled as such. That's what we had to do to accept we were a RAMCOA survivor as we originally had less memories of the cult until given the name by our parents (to be clear we did this only because we were already in therapy and part of our recovery and work is being done in order to come out against the group and the leader, and have full legal protections as a whistle blower)

Thisssssss

Debunking Sysmed Claims

Debunking Sysmed Claims

Picking apart sysmed takes and why they're wrong

Tried reading this shit. Absolutely made me nauseous. Sick to my stomach. This is all taken out of context. And also, in alterhuman communities, which I was part of, people claiming to have DID or DDNOS because of it were very frequently shunned. I would continue but I'm sure the reblogs will.

I need breakfast.

Warning for anyone triggered by endo rhetoric: this is nothing but that

~Fluff time~ (slight hurt/comfort, fluffiness, and this is based off of my headcanon about New York loving coloring books)

Also: Connie is Connecticut’s nickname

=======================================================================

5pm:

The meeting had been rather stressful for New York today. There was a lot of yelling and fighting and cussing and other various loud sounds that were overstimulating him and he felt like just curling up in ball and crying where he sat and covering his ears to block out everything. But then he would have had to deal with the others asking what was wrong with him and he did NOT need their pity.

Once the meeting was over, he left the meeting room as fast as he could without literally sprinting like a D1 track athlete and went to his room. Once he got there, he grabbed one of his many adult coloring books, his 96 pack of crayons (bet it has a sharpener too- those are literally the best-), his phone, and his Bluetooth headphones. York set the stuff on his bed and walked over to his closet and grabbed his cropped AC/DC hoodie the may or may not be a little big on him and literally eliminated his arms/hands. He put on the hoodie and headphones, turned on his music, grabbed his stuff, and started his way to the living room. On his way out of his room, he saw one of his fidget cubes and grabbed it with little to no hesitation before going to the living room.

He walked down the hall and looked around the lounge area of the NE floor to see how many people were there. Pennsylvania and Mass were talking in the kitchen, Jersey and Rhode Island were sitting at the kitchen island exchanging memes, and Maine was sitting on couch paying attention to the TV. Aight, he’ll be alright. York snuck past everybody and went into the corner of the living room where he usually hid when he wanted to. There, he set down his stuff, grabbed a pillow, found a good picture, and got to work.

There was something about coloring that brought some weird form of peace to his soul. He just liked the mindlessness of it and the fact that it gave him two positive things to focus on instead of many negative things, and that was: staying in the lines and listening to the music.

=======================================================================

A few hours later, at around 10pm:

Connecticut was getting ready for bed when he decided to go get a cup of water before sleeping. As he walked to the kitchen, he noticed something laying in the corner of the living room. He walked over and his heart nearly melted at the sight that lay before him.

York was curled up in a ball near fully asleep next to his coloring book on the floor. He had one arm, which was covered completely by his hoodie sleeve, wrapped around his torso and his legs pulled up to torso. His other arm/hand that wasn’t wrapped around himself had a crayon in it, and York’s phone was next to him still playing his music and his hood was covering his head as well as half his face. It was overall an adorable sight, but Connie wasn’t about to let York just sleep on the floor like that. He was also questioning how the he// York was able to sleep in that position and be comfy.

He walked over to his youngest brother and knelt down next to him. He gently shook York’s shoulder and whispered, "York..?" A few times. Slowly but surely Connie heard a slight groan, indicating that York was slightly awake now. He gently took the hood off of the younger’s head and ruffled his hair slightly, chuckling when he leaned into the touch. "C’mon ya little dork. Time for bed. You need it."

"Mm not tired…." York mumbled as though he wasn’t practically asleep right now.

"Mhm yea okay." Connie said sarcastically as he ran his hand York’s hair and gently scratched his scalp, putting the younger in pure bliss. "Yer literally falling asleep right now."

"Mm not…." protested the Empire State. "F(speaks New York) off…."

"Yes you are, don’t bother tryin’ to get out of this." Said the Constitution State. He gently poked York his exposed side, making him flinch and curl up completely. This gave Connie the opportunity to pick up the taller in his arms, carry him to the couch, and lay down with York (who was practically asleep) curled up next to him. He grabbed a comforter that was on the back of the couch and gently draped it over the two of them.

York had now buried his face in his brother’s chest and was sound asleep.

Connie tilted his head slightly and planted a gentle brotherly kiss to the top of his head. "Night Yorkie…."

And he could’ve sworn he heard a near dead silent, "Welterusten (Dutch for: Good Night)." in response to his words.

Hey, so definitely don't go into more details than you feel comfortable with but if you can, could you elaborate on systems forming pseudomemories because they researched programming? Like developing completely false memories of programming when they aren't, or?

Hey constellation!

To be completely honest, I don’t know how well I could do that because I’m in heavy denial for the memories I currently have. I often try to tell myself they’re not real/they are pseudomemories so that I can like…feel better, I guess. Lol. Iykyk.

The reason I said that is because of what I read when I looked into RAMCOA, including alllllll of the warnings that were given to me from other victims of RAMCOA and ignored them like a dumbass and researched anyway.

They told me it was super common for non-RAMCOA systems to get pseudomemories. I honestly don’t remember how they explained it, I apologize. Something along the lines of “if you hear about a trauma situation that vaguely seems like it could make sense you may jump to conclusions” sort of thing. Gonna do like a really basic example here:

If you have a phobia of spiders (common in anyone really) but you read about a trauma scenario involving torture with spiders you might be like “Oh GOD! I have a spider phobia! I must have spider related trauma!” And anyone can be good at running with an idea and overthinking and imagining all these horrible scenarios.

HOWEVER

This is not always the case. If you feel you have genuine programming or memories regarding them it’s probably best to NOT fuck around and find out and find a specialist that can treat that because if you poke the bear it can get hella messy. It’s better to be safe than sorry. It’s better to realize they are pseudomemories later than assume they’re pseudomemories and dig deeper to figure out the “real memory” and realize that IS the real memory and massively destabilize the system.

However! (x2)

I stand by my original reply to that one person that if you haven’t already looked into RAMCOA, Don’t. You will not find good things. Whether you have progs or not. It’s not a fun thing to read about.

TW on this next part for what progging would be used for, NOT detailed at all, just be aware that I will be talking briefly about CSA/MC/suicide related things.

Wanna add that not all programming is done the same. I sorta brushed past that in that last reply, but I wanna make it more clear: not all programmers are super skilled or have done it a lot to make a fully programmed system. This sort of thing takes massive amounts of work. YEARS of work. And the stuff that happens is usually massively fucked up. I can only imagine some people not involved in a literal organized cult who specializes in this stuff who try will give up for some reason or another, or may not do it “well enough” or may modify things they’ve learned from other proggers to fit their own needs. Programming/mind control is usually done to fit the abusers/proggers needs, which means one’s programming could be at the level of like “Monarch Program” shit or like, more simple MC/progging for sex-related tasks or compliance or suicide programs for protection of the abusers.

Hope that answers your question. DMs are open, I’m absolutely okay to talk about this stuff carefully.

-Dorian

⚠️TW- Talks of Death⚠️

However. However while it's true an alter within headspace cannot truly die and more goes into a "slumber" aka dormancy there are actual ways alters can "die".

•An alter who was front and experienced a near death experience might turn into a ghost alter

•An alter who has been dormant for so long and their amnesia walls are so high up could be considered dead

•For our System we have a Purgatory meaning that alters who no longer wish to be within the System will go into Purgatory where memories are "erased" and essentially are declared "deceased" as they no longer take front nor do they consider themselves to be associated with main Inner World, the Side System or even Subsystems.

•Purgatory Example-

Two of our alters/headmates were once considered to be "mortal" one is an adult trauma holder and another is a Little trauma holder.

The adult holder experienced a near death experience when front and in the Inner World got pushed into Purgatory. This one alter is the only alter that managed to escape from Purgatory with memories in tact.

The other alter to essentially "die" is our Little holder. This Little became a zombie. This Little willingly placed themselves in Purgatory due to the high stress of trauma.

These are just two possible examples plus one special of how an alter within headspace could "die" however an alter dying in the Inner World and no longer being of an existence is not possible as even if they turn into an undead or ghost alter they're still within the head.

The one and only way alters can truly die, cease to exist is when the body dies. With DID alters are created by and from the brain due to trauma. When humans pass, the brain will no longer function along with the rest of the body. This is the only way and how alters can truly die

Unless you’re uncomfortable with them having number names continue let them using their number name. It’s not disrespectful and they’re not exclusive. It’s not like a close practice. How many singlets do you know with the name zero, I know, at least three. Unlike close practises number names are just something that happens. There’s lots of reasons for them to exist, yes RAMCOA is one but there is many more. Our Ramcoa support group had talked about this and basically everybody there and a lot of other people I’ve talk to have a greed that it’s not exclusive, so unless you’re uncomfortable continue using them. If people are giving you shit about this redirect them to like people like me or switch case. 

i have a bit of a question regarding using number names as a non-RAMCOA survivor.

we have alters and many fragments who have numbers for/instead of names. we’ve been questioning being RAMCOA survivors for a while, but ultimately decided to simply drop it as it was damaging us and our mental health more than anything, and it really isn’t something we should’ve been looking into at all in the first place without the help of a therapist. i personally (jay) don’t believe we’re a RAMCOA survivor, but many others in the system genuinely do and it’s not exactly a debate we can settle easily.

my question is, what do we do about these alters and fragments? we don’t actually know whether we’re a survivor or not. do we just not let them front, or force them to pick names (something we have tried, but made them extremely upset/uncomfortable because according to them they had names, which were their numbers)? none of them front very often anyways, but right now anytime any of them have fronted they’ve essentially just been told they can’t talk anywhere publicly. we’re really stuck on what to do. we know it’s disrespectful, but we also don’t have any idea for sure if we can use them or not, and like i said we’ve completely dropped trying to figure it out because of how both damaging and potentially dangerous it was. what do we do?

Something buried years ago lies burning still beneath the snow.