My Favourite Trope In MXTX's Novels Is Finding One That One Person Is A Criminal/traitor So We Need To

It's not my usual post, because most of the time I have just rebloging something, but I hope it starting the era where I will sharing my thoughts about some certain topics , anyway happy birthday to my A - yao

well personally i like it when there’s incest and necrophilia and murder and cannibalism and abuse and torture and gore and mutilation and body horror and sexual depravity and death.

Wei wuxian : Are you sexually active?

Jin Guangyao: No , I just lie there

Rereading more stuff for nieyao fic reasons and. I'm having feelings about how much jgy actually *doesn't* jump to murder as a first solution. It would be. A very different book if he killed people as a first (or second, or third) resort.

Note: Because I'm thinking about this in terms of the conflict with NMJ, I don't go into the ways I think MY/JGY changes throughout the novel (or the ways he stays the same). So this analysis is generally applicable to an extent, but focused on/derived from MY pre JGY.

Ch 10 book 2 p 289 - he's explaining to Nmj why he killed the commander. I'm interested in what his actual reasons seem to be.

"he belittles me, always humiliates and reprimands me in every possible way"

Except! At least according to MY, "it wasn't because of this". He's not straight up stabbing the guy for mistreating him.

"No! It wasn't because of this! ... What humiliation is there that I cannot endure? Beatings and insults are nothing to me!" Ok that's. *alarming* and seems to go beyond "this guy was mean to me". In case we missed it. But still, apparently that's not why he killed him. So what else.

"With every stronghold we won over - all the pain and effort I put into strategizing, planning our approach - he only needed to say a few breezy words, make a few brush strokes, and claim all credit for himself, saying I had nothing to do with it!"

I'm going to pause here. Alright. The issue seems to be stolen credit. Well, as NMJ remarks on the next page "Even so, you can't just kill him!. . . It's only a bit of military merit!"

Let's put a pin in that and come back. Because I'm less interested in whether Jgy was justified in this murder and more. What is his relationship to it. Whats the focus, what does he seem distressed about, and, did he actually jump to killing someone who stole his credit.

Second one is easy. No. No he didn't.

"This wasn't the first time. He did it every time, every single time!" So this isn't the commander stealing credit for MYs coolest ideas or something. This is systematic. This is the commander doing exactly what JGS is doing - trying to erase him, preventing him from getting himself acknowledged in any way shape or form. You know. The only hope MY has of escaping the shitty situation he's in. The only shield MY can hope for in this context, against the effects of his reputation, is accomplishment. It's making himself useful, making himself known, so that maybe, somehow his father will see him. (Right before he tricks NMJ, MY whispers "my father hasn't seen me yet". This isn't true, technically JGS is pretending he hasn't, but effectively, for MY's hopes. It's the same. He's saying he hasn't gotten his father to see him yet. He just needs more time. It can work. It has to work. He could do it if only the commander would stop).

This isn't about a desire for like. Valor in and of itself. There's established reasons he needs to be recognized.

But that's not all the commander is doing. He's "saying [MY] had nothing to do with it [the accomplishments]".

This implies what's happening isn't just MY *not getting recognition* for his efforts [lack of a positive addition to how people see him]. The commander is also contradicting MYs claims. As in. Making MY out to be a liar and an upstart with the audacity to try and claim his superiors work [addition of a very very bad, dangerous thing to MYs reputation]. He's already seen as someone who should be put in his place, for daring to work hard, hope for better, even with the Nie, where he's not doing anything wrong. His reputation matters, because he's getting "beaten and insulted" just for trying to?? Do his job? Get recognized? And the commander is making that worse. This is beyond the harm the commander is doing to him individually, he's also slowly eroding MYs only hope of relative safety (better reputation).

But! Let's go back to. Did he jump to murder though? Nope!

"He did it every time, every single time! I tried to reason with him, but he didn't care at all, and when I went to the others, no one was willing to listen."

Italics added by me because oh my fucking god. Things like "he should have just asked for help" dont make sense because. He demonstrably did. He was experiencing harassment from a superior, which is already a shitty situation where it's going to be hard to speak up. He wasn't just being made fun of, he was being beaten apparently, and, given the fact that this is a Jin commander and everyone knows who MY is and knows about the stairs. ("MY had been a famous laughing stock for a while" p 280) The commander more than likely knows exactly what he's doing. He knows, at least vaguely, why MY wants this recognition, why he's working so hard, and he's punishing him for it. For having the audacity to think he can have anything better than what people think he deserves - which is to be treated like actual trash.

The general sentiment against MY, which can only be more intense with the Jin, is laid out pretty concisely on page 276, with the Nie troops gossip about MY fetching water.

"He's just disgracing himself, making a scene like that"

"See, this is why people shouldn't dream about what's outta their league. Who can he blame but himself for getting tumbled bloody? No one. He asked for it."

"Resigning my ass. He's doing his best to perform. Don't you see how hard he's working, running around all day doing this and that? He's so eager to please, hoping so hard to make a name for himself so his father will be willing to acknowledge and take him back".

So. On one hand. I don't think NMJ is being purposefully malicious. But he. Does not understand what MY is telling him. Pretty clearly. He doesn't see the full implications and doesn't hear the layered meaning.

"You care that much about this tiny bit of trivial glory!?" "Without this tiny bit of trivial glory, I would have nothing". (290)

The fact that MY mirrors NMJs words is important also. "Glory" is NMJs choice of words, as is "merit". They reflect NMJs assumptions/interpretation, when what MY actually said was being claimed was "credit". Glory and merit are things that are extras. They're something shiny and additive to a reputation. You can do good and not see glory for it, but it would be entitled and arguably greedy to do good things for the sake of merit. MY is not asking for recognition in the sense of any additive recognition. He's asking for basic acknowledgement, the credit, the truth. He's asking for people to literally see that he did this thing. He's not! Asking for applause for it. That's not what's being lost. It's that nobody believes he's coming up with any ideas at all. Worse, it's implied that he's tried to correct this, but his word doesn't hold the power, so he's basically not only being framed as useless, but a liar who undermines his superiors. Which. Compromises any sort of reason to keep him around. If he's not only not able to be seen as useful, but actively framed as a problem.

MY cannot let himself be a problem. He has to be useful. This is the source of desperation. He's already seen as a problem, for daring to do anything, be near cultivators. He has to try and protect himself by being indispensable. If he is not worth keeping around, nobody will, and there's no good will for him to fall back on, nowhere for him to go.

I'm going to catch myself before I get more caught up in the complexity of what credit and accomplishment and acknowledgement mean to MY. They're about protection, they're the only weapon he has, is my point. It's not about glory.

But. Surely he could have done something other than kill the guy? Like. Well. What. Talk to him. Talk to the others. Talk to anyone. Ask for help. Repeatedly. How did that go for him. Do you think he would be reasonable to fear further retaliation for his attempts to ask for help or defend himself in non murdery ways? Sure seems like it! That's what tends to happen!

And I want to go back to the way MY describes his accomplishments being stolen for a second here, with a focus on descriptors. (I don't know how much is lost in translation or accurate but I find the amount of adjectives/adverbs & descriptive specificity JGY uses in his speech. A fascinating character detail. Maybe he's worried about being unheard or purposefully misunderstood? Maybe he's so deliberate in his speech because he's desperately trying to get it all out and defend against inevitable doubt before it can be voiced? 24/7???)

"All the pain and effort I put in" VS "he only needed to say a few breezy words, make a few brushstrokes" to claim all of MYs credit for himself.

So NMJ takes this as manipulation/MY framing himself as the victim I think. Except. Well not in the case of killing the guy but generally in his relationship to the commander, yes? MY sounds like a victim because he is one. His life sucks. There was no reason besides cruelty for the commander to be doing all that.

But look at what MY chooses to highlight through word choice. It's a power differential! He's specifically trying to convey why he feels like he had no choice.

He asked for help. He tried to reason. But not only that. Not only did nobody listen to him. In a general sense, his hardest efforts could be completely overruled by a few breezy words, a simple brushstroke from the commander. That's all it took for nothing he did to matter in the slightest.

This is no longer just about the accomplishments. He's talking about that, yes, but everything MY says is layered, and this is the nature of his status. Generally, within society, but also with his superior he's trying to figure out how to defend himself against.

What he's saying is "what else was I supposed to do, when it had been repeatedly demonstrated, that I could do my hardest work, everything in my power, and none of it would matter in the face of a few little words from someone of status".

What he's pointing out is that it doesn't matter that he's right. It doesn't matter that he's telling the truth, he's a liar because his words are worth less. His efforts are worth less. He is worth less to the world and everyone knows it and acts accordingly. And the commander, people in any position of power at all, can do anything to him that they want, and there's nothing he can do to stop it.

I also want to highlight how much there is an implied threat here. The commander wasn't just ridiculing and beating MY. He's doing it *because* he knows there won't be any consequences, that anything MY gets will be seen as his fault, and, that MY will never fight back, because nobody would believe him, and it would still be his fault. They both know this. That's what the commander is bringing up when he harasses MY. It's not just harassment, it's a reminder that he can do whatever he wants.

Specifically. The commander, like the people holding water, like the people in the brothel. They're not just making fun of him for fun. They're doing it because they think he deserves it. Stealing his accomplishments is the equivalent of tying acknowledgement to a string and telling him to jump for it, and laughing at him for trying.

Except being made fun of isn't new to him. If MY killed everyone who was cruel to him just because they can be, half the population of the novel would be dead. Lmao. He does it because he still has hope that he can save himself from the perpetual harm, if he just gets his father to see him. And the commander knows this. And finds it hilarious. And stands in his way, on purpose, when all he would have to do is not deliberately steal the one thing MY can control and use to protect himself, from him. Repeatedly. And nobody will help, because nothing MY says means anything to them, and they think he brought it on himself anyway.

So I'm just. I don't feel like "I had no choice! I was forced to do it". Is even. Wrong. Sure you can argue that doesn't make murder okay but. MY/JGY isn't saying "I had no choice" lightly. He's not saying it as someone who stabs for fun, or does so as any sort of a first instinct. He just. Would like to stop being the world's punching bag. And I don't really feel any compassion for the commander who saw him trying to get approval and went "oh, time to mess with this kid, just because I can. And it's hilarious, because he can't do anything, he won't hit back, hell just keep trying to work harder! Ha!". ??? I'd stab him too tbh.

BUT one last thing. MY does not stab him out of spite for harassing him. I cannot emphasize this enough. Not saying it didn't factor in, but again, if MY killed everyone who mistreated him there would be more people dead. Much faster too. Mistreating him gets people on the "would be willing to kill" list, but what actually pushes him to act, is feeling like the only way to reach his goal is through them. And this is only true once attempts to reason or asking them to step aside. Has. Not. Worked.

So yeah. Not a murder gremlin. I meant to address the actual fake suicide but that's. Going to have to be a separate post at this point.

MDZS Character height chart

This was the author’s footnote in chapter 115, unit in cm.

Nie Mingjue 191

Song Zichen 190

Lan Xichen 188

Lan Wangji 188

Wei Wuxian 186

Jin Zixuan 185

Jiang Wanyin 185

Xiao Xingchen 185

Wen Qionglin 183

Xue Yang 180

Mo Xuanyu 180

Nie Huaisang 172

Jin Guangyao 170 (without his hat but it’s doubtful whether the interior is heightened)

Lan Qiren: I pray that my nephews won't share their father's weakness for women!

Monkey's Paw: *curls a finger*

JC: You bring dishonor to the family.

WY: Well at least I'm bringing something.

wwx: [looks directly into the camera] wow, it's kind of crazy how what's happening to jin guangyao now is so similar to what happened to me 13 years ago! in both of our cases, once the mob made up its mind, it was completely unwilling to consider the truth and instead just freely speculated on crimes the accused could have done until the accused was blamed of everything under the sun! and, in both of our cases, the legitimate grievances the mob had against us often came second to the mob's anger that someone of a lower class was living "beyond their station"!

mdzs fans: Read 5.55PM

mdzs fans: anyways, here's why wwx is Pure Good and jgy is Pure Evil and how if you dare compare then you deserve the chair actually--

When I first heard that song I was thinking about them

I don't know what I'm supposed to do Haunted by the ghost of you Take me back to the night we met

a little bit of a different style for me, but it popped into my mind fully formed when I heard this song by Lord Huron, so obviously I had to drop everything and make it