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‘isolation’ by joy division is very martin blackwood

post-crisis batkid canonical ages

“It’s impossible to figure out comic book timelines” - people who are not me and who I cannot relate to. I have crafted this, a coherent, canon-compliant timeline. A quick preface:

This is all for the Post-Crisis (i.e. New Earth/1986-2011/Pre-Flashpoint/pre-reboot/“preboot”/best) continuity.

My main principle here is diegetic evidence from comics >>>> evidence from supplemental materiel (like calendars, timelines from secret files & origins, character encyclopedias, etc)

Second principle is that mentions of ages, birthdays > mentions of time passed > non-birthday month placements (e.g. the start of school years).

We’re going to go youngest to oldest, because it actually makes more sense that way.

Damian is 10-11 at the end of preboot.

Damian’s birthday is not given in Post-Crisis.

Damian is 10 when he becomes Robin, per Batman and Robin vol 1 #1. He is still 10 in Batgirl vol 3 #17. That is the last time I am aware of where his age is said, so he may or may not have turned 11 in the short remaining time before Flashpoint.

Tim is about 7 years older than Damian. He is 17 at the end of preboot.

Tim’s birthday is July 19th (Robin #116).

Tim turned 16 in R#116, before the One Year Later event (where, as you may guess, a year passed), meaning he is at least 17 after OYL. Tim is still 17 in Red Robin #25. Damian becomes Robins between these events, meaning Tim is 17 when Damian is 10, and they are ~7 years apart.

RR#25 is the penultimate issue of Red Robin. Coupled with the significance of an 18th birthday and the fact that we never see one, there is virtually no chance that Tim turned 18 before Flashpoint. He’s 17.

Stephanie is <1 year older than Tim. Steph is 18 at the end of preboot.

Stephanie’s birthday is not given in Post-Crisis.

Stephanie was 15 when she first became Spoiler, per her recounting the story in Secret Origins 80-Page Giant. She is still 15 in Robin #59. In between these events, Tim is stated as 14 in Robin #43. Therefore, Stephanie is older. Stephanie “died” when she is 16, per the last story in Batman Allies Secret Files and Origins, between R#116 and OYL, meaning Tim was also 16. That makes her less than a year older.

She is also one grade above Tim, starting college in Batgirl vol 3 #1, shortly before it’s confirmed by Red Robin #17 that Tim (had he not dropped out) should be a senior in high school.

Stephanie starts college in Batgirl vol 3 #1, and we have every reason to believe she is starting at the "normal” time, making her 18. Since Tim is 17 at the end of Post-Crisis, and Steph is less than a year older, she can’t be any older than 18.

Jason is 1 year, 11 months, 3 days older than Tim. Jason is 19 at the end of preboot.

Jason’s birthday is on August 16th (Detective Comics #790).

No ambiguity here! Tim and Jason are exactly 702 days apart, unless Tim was born on or right after a leap year, making it 703. We know this because Jason’s 18th birthday is on August 16th in DC#790, which occurs after R#116 and Tim’s 16th birthday, but before OYL where Tim turns 17. This means Jason must have turned 18 when Tim was 16.

Jason’s age is never explicitly said after his return. But because his birthday comes after Tim’s, and Tim is still 17 at the end of preboot, we can be completely confident that Jason is still 19.

Cass is 6 months, 21 days older than Jason. Cass is 19-20 at the end of preboot.

Cassandra’s birthday is on January 26th (Batgirl vol 1 #33).

Cass turned 18 in Batgirl #37, shortly before both R#116 and DC#790, meaning before Tim turned 16 and Jason 18. This is well after No Man’s Land, so we can be certain Tim is long-since 15 (see below cut), and since her birthday is in January, we can also be certain Jason is long-since 17. This means Cass is less than a year older than Jason.

Cass’s age is also never said towards the end of preboot, but can be estimated via Jason (via Tim). Knowing Jason is 19 and Cass is 7 months older, we know she must be 19-20 at the end of preboot. However, since her birthday is before Tim’s, we cannot say if it’s passed to be more specific than that.

Dick is probably 6 years, 4 months, 26 days older than Jason (5 years, 10 months, 6 days older than Cass). He is 25-26 at the end of preboot.

Dick’s birthday is complicated, but imo the best bet for Post-Crisis is March 20th (see below cut).

Dick’s age is extremely messy, but here goes. Dick is 19 when Bruce fires him (Batman #419) and Jason is at most 12 when Bruce finds him shortly after (see below). Dick turns 20 while Jason is Robin (Secret Origins vol 2 #13 and New Teen Titans vol 2 #18). Dick is at most 21 in Deathstroke vol 1 Annual #1, after Tim is introduced. This means Dick is 20-21 when Tim is introduced at 13. The ONLY possible way to make all those ages work is for Dick to be ~6.5 years older than Jason, ~8.5 years older than Tim.

Dick’s age is not really said after that, except the vague mention in Nightwing vol 2 #134 that the time around his 17th birthday was “almost ten years” ago. This fits with what his age should logically be based on the difference to Tim, and we can confidently put him at 25-26 at the end of preboot.

A detailed timeline, references, and explanations of what was included or had to be ignored under the cut:

Keep reading

adding onto this, it’s so important to me that jason was chosen for his heart even when classist stereotypes would expect him to be naturally violent, cruel, and selfish.

he only becomes more aggressive and bitter the more time he spends as robin BECAUSE of robin. he saw all the injustice first hand in violent crime and the ineffective, corrupt system and he became frustrated. he wanted to kill two face because he killed his father; he wanted to attack the pimp because he directly saw him beating up a woman; he might have killed garzonas because he had to witness gloria’s dead body and garzonas would walk free to do that to other women, just out of america.

jason’s not naturally violent and cruel, it’s what he’s learned is the only way to protect other victims in a world that perpetuates suffering.

i know starlin is seen as the main post-crisis jaybin writer but jason writers PLEASE read collins

(pictures are from batman #409 and #411)

reposting from the author of Red Hood 2025’s bluesky. the book will not be copaganda. it won’t change the fact helena canonically hates cops and that jason very likely also hates cops.

Cass' love language is indeed tactile and touch and it particularly manifests in hugging and embraces - thinking of how touchy Steph is in her death visions, the way Cass touches Bruce after their fight, Bruce's hug when he adopts her, the various Babs-Cass hugs and the way Cass touches her when they reconcile after their fight (which is very similar to the Bruce post-fight touch as well). Even in New 52, Cass sees two people hugging and tries to replicate it. Hugging represents love and connection in every iteration of her character. But at the beginning of it all is a little girl who has just killed for the first time, staring at the person she loves most in the world waiting with open, welcoming arms - and she runs away.

under the hood is not a conflict formed out of violent miscommunication; it’s a tragedy born out of irreconcilable differences between father and son, catalysed by the most traumatic event conceivable.

whilst, yes, batman initially believes jason was fighting him because he failed to save him then later on believes that jason is asking him to kill joker in that moment instead of making him watch the joker to be killed, the resolved miscommunication fixes nothing. you can even say it gets worse because now it’s not something that can be understood as an unavoidable hurt of the past or an easier justification of his moral line, it’s the one thing that is somewhat reasonable to ask but that batman is unable to provide- killing the joker himself or allowing jason to take the joker’s life without trying to prevent it.

jason knowing that batman attempted to kill the joker in his grief or that nightwing did succeed temporarily changes nothing because nothing changed. the joker is not dead and the fact remains that if batman and nightwing wanted him truly dead, he would be and the deaths of so many would have been prevented.

jason knows he was loved, in fact he actively mocks it because that love was not enough to save him or avenge him like he points out the same for nightwing when bludhaven explodes. but he doesn’t need just love, he needs to be prioritised by his father and batman can never let go of his morals to do so. in batman #425, batman implies that the death of so many as a result of garzonas’ fathers vengeance is jason’s fault, showing that it’s only a natural consequence for a father to avenge his son, with the only one at fault for the blood feud being the son’s murderer. jason has every right to have expected batman to kill based off this and batman just can’t do it. therefore batman hides behind his mission to rationalise his guilt to his son, causing jason to replicate his language of vigilantism and costumed conflict, using his own goal to appeal to him.

both jason and bruce are simultaneously correct on their moral stances on murder (not taking into consideration the extremes and perhaps diversion from the core of their moral philosophies), it’s been a subject debated and questioned for an inconceivably long period of human history and will continue to be done be done because there is no definitive ‘right’ in ethics. they’re both highly intelligent, motivated, and thoughtful characters who definitely considered all possibilities and landed on their moral code.

moreover, even if one of them was more ‘correct’ than the other and should move towards the other moral view, they can’t; both have made their stances on the issue as a foundational to their lives. batman can’t let go of his belief in hope and the sanctity of human life and jason can’t let go of needing vengeance to be able to continue on in his second chance at life and the question of how many more lives is he willing to risk for sustaining an individuals right to life.

also, on a meta level, their conflict is that of conventions of the superhero genre combatting criticism of it. batman does as any hero is expected to and treats jason as the antagonist he is with his murder spree whilst also responding to the final trolley dilemma by trying to find a ‘third option’ of keeping both jason and the joker alive. but jason mocks and criticises batman’s approach to vigilantism and the given tropes he embodies and we are somewhat encouraged to root for him in part of his calling out of batman’s extremes such as when he cries out for the death of captain nazi. jason pushes batman into a moral corner and he is killed by him because of it, shutting down jason’s genre awareness and serving as a final, damning critique of batman. both batman and jason todd’s defiance can not co exist because to do so would erase the valid criticism jason makes without meriting it or would cause batman to betray his own respectable mythos.

it’s a tragedy of father and son torn apart by their conflicting and extreme opposing moral principles that cannot be altered without work being put in that dc is unwilling to do. they both need to fight because they love each other and feel the need to bring the other to their side, but in their futile efforts “everybody still loses.”

This is your canon reminder for the day that Dick is a nerdy li’l Shakespeare buff. <3

Scans from Batman #216 (1969), Gotham Knights #42 (2003), Teen Titans #36 (1971), and Batman #682 (2009).